Vkb tecs

What you're asking for is a prediction of availability which no one here can give, and official VKB-sim reps have now said they will not give so as not to risk missing it. Which I understand, although as the renders are already released leaves some (myself included, as a VKB stick owner - exact same as yours) in limbo.

DCS World Steam Edition > General Discussions > Topic Details. goofey Oct 18, 2021 @ 5:17am. Looking for Good Throttle. I have a VKB stick on order. Wanted to get a throttle of comparable quality. VKB's throttle is not out yet and while they keep promising availability, no soap. So I probably won't wait for that one.Feb 1, 2021 · VKB are also touting a new electronic based detent system which enables for a fuller range of travel and configurable detent with different styles – tactile click, hard limit, one-way and two-way. Arc Standard – A basic throttle base with buttons and mechanical detents. Approximate price will be $200 USD. Arc Premium – Electronic detents ... For all we know, the product is complete and ready to ship, but they're waiting for a patent to be granted. saw on the il-2 forums that they recently announced they got the patent. Hopefully this means we’ll see it out soon. It’s this year, that’s all we know. It’s almost Q2 so might aswell wait. Re: VKB TECS: MODULARITY FULL AHEAD. The base looks very similar to the Gladiator, yet the side panels don't seem to be detachable and they're a different shape, I hope you're working on a base that we can connect GNX modules to. That base, in the picture, is just a holder; final product will be different.VKB TECS: МОДУЛЬНОСТЬ НА ПОЛНОМ ГАЗУ. До нас дошли вести, что лётное сообщество проявляет нетерпение по поводу РУДа. По слухам, сообществу нужен надежный, универсальный, удобный РУД. И мы сами ...VKB-SIM. Official Forum. ... На главную Список форумов In English Official announcements; VKB TECS: MODULARITY FULL AHEAD. Модератор: AdminGroup. 600 сообщений Страница 20 из 40. Перейти на страницу:Sep 27, 2023 · In English. Последнее сообщение Re: Perimeter dimensions for …. Последнее сообщение Re: STECS mount desks and GFI…. Последнее сообщение Re: Question about VkbDevCFG:….

re: vkb tecs: modularity full ahead AeroGator писал(а): We're working on it - there is pretty much nothing new in this reply, unfortunately. We can't stop people from buying other makers' throttle, obviously, as people have their plans, and care not about others' reasons, which is understandable and totally justified.Features. 3 Analog axes (w/ clutch dampers and adjustable length/height of axis levers) 5 Interchangeable axis lever heads (different colors/shape) Up to 4 GNX THQ modules can be connected, providing 12 analog axes. Newly developed VKB Njoy 32NG firmware allows for 20 analog axes to be recognized in Windows as 3 joysticks (2 w/ 8 axes, plus 1 w ...Think screws and bolts, and aluminum threadings. 400 mm lever is more than enough to pull any screw out of a chunk of aluminum fully destroying the thread. You will easily find a replacement screw, but stripped thread will total an otherwise perfectly workable unit. permalink. save.So far ive got a VKB Gladiator EVO right handed Stick and Love it so far. To complete the Setup im thinking about getting another Gladiator EVO but with the omnithrottle stick for 230 Euros or a Thrustmaster twcs for 83 Euros. Thats a huge price point difference but afaik the vkb alternative is way better in terms of build quality than the twcs ...Молодцы, сделали на твёрдую пятёрочку здесь. Установлен V-образный детент, но установлен так, что ролик не полностью опускается за упор детента, потому, к значению можно прибавить примерно 5% ...VKB have also just launched their other NXT peripherals which include a throttle quadrant. VKB will also release a proper military style “hotas” throttle - the VKB TECS - which ought to actually land är quite an interesting price…VKB FSC Europe is the only store in European Union which offers VKB products. We are located in the Netherlands and ship from our local stock within EU and beyond. VKB is an engineering and manufacturing company producing a range of high quality controllers for flight and space simulator enthusiast such as joysticks and rudder pedals.

Yes, the idea in TECS is allow exchange throttle grips like is done in VKB bases that accept multiple VKB joystick grip (KG-12-B, SCG, MCG, F-14). But at release (when?) only this "Su57'ish" grips will be available.Mate, your folly in waiting that long for TECS doesn't invalidate VKB as a company. I'm a real fan of VKB kit, but I've been telling people that need a new throttle not to wait for TECS for a couple of years now. If it ever comes out, I suspect it will be very innovative and probably a real pack leader, but people need a throttle, not a concept.The VKB ecosystem of flight & space sim controllers is truly a dream for any aspiring and advanced sim pilot. VKB controllers are industry-leading through continuous innovation of products and controller technology thanks to our in-house engineering team. VKB products are highly configurable, long-lasting and backed by our local support team. Jan 2, 2018 · TECS is modular and focused on modern aircraft. VKB-Sim appears intent on further adding on to their array of grips, bases and controllers by offering up a modular throttle system experience as well. The concepts show off what are a couple of different options including a “basic” HOTAS plus two additional modules adding on additional …Oh and I agree, my V1 T-50 Virpil throttle is still going (mostly) strong. It will be only replaced, if it's replaced, by the VKB TECS when that comes out (whenever that is) and only then if/when the TECS lives up to expectations (and I expect TECS will, VKB have yet to disappoint me with their products ;->)

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The x52 is less for more parts but is just less overall. The VKB is more expensive but the quality is just so much better. Also the VKB, looking at just this subreddit and hoggit, has much better resale value if you need to look at it that way. Anyway just my experience and hope this helps. Luv - Grim. MTG-R (pre-configured Button Modules: Button – 2; 3-pos Hat – 1; 5-pos Hat – 2) Additional Button Modules included in the kit: Button – 3; 5-pos Hat – 3; replaceable hat caps - 3. Red rubber grip pads (pre-installed) Green, Gray rubber pads included in the kit. Detent Frame – 5. L-shape detent regular – 4.I hope it lasts until at least the space sim oriented TECS comes out, and if longer that’s fine too. I’ve heard good things about this throttle but trash things about the stick usually bundled with it. Picked this up and ordered a VKB Gladiator NXT, best hotas combo for $260 from what I’ve read. Can’t wait!:DIn addition to that, VKB Beleggings declares dividends annually from the profits generated by the industries (VKB Agri Processors Group), as well as the other ...VKB-SIM. Official Forum. ... На главную Список форумов In English Official announcements; VKB TECS: MODULARITY FULL AHEAD. Модератор: AdminGroup. 600 сообщений Страница 14 из 40. Перейти на страницу:What you're asking for is a prediction of availability which no one here can give, and official VKB-sim reps have now said they will not give so as not to risk missing it. Which I understand, although as the renders are already released leaves some (myself included, as a VKB stick owner - exact same as yours) in limbo.

VKB TECS: МОДУЛЬНОСТЬ НА ПОЛНОМ ГАЗУ. До нас дошли вести, что лётное сообщество проявляет нетерпение по поводу РУДа. По слухам, сообществу нужен надежный, универсальный, удобный РУД. И мы сами ...Now if I could only stick with ONE SET, that would be great. Last time I played Star Citizen, I was using the VKB Kosmosimas (L&R) with the VPC CM2 throttle and an iPad. Its chaos. For the sake of having one brand; once VKB releases the TECS with a sliding throttle, the VPC stuff gets thrown into the bin-o-controls, on ebay, or sold locally. VKB offers 2 solutions. 1 - Install an additional usb controller in the 2nd THQ. Then Windows will see it as a yet another device. This is a pretty mainstream solution used by many. 2 - Get a newly developed Njoy 32NG firmware, a seriously advanced version of famous Njoy 32. We've been working on it for a couple of years.I got sick of waiting for TECS 3.5 years ago, and bought a virpil throttle. 100% satisfied. I waited over a year, then went with the CM3 in the BF sales and was not disappointed. Watching the VKB Tango sneak peak of the preview of the demo concept pretty much sealed the deal for me. They haven't got anything ready.Whilst I don't think anybody needing a throttle or a throttle upgrade should wait for TECS (they should go with a CM3 or an Orion 2 or even maybe a Super Taurus, depending on need), I think you're exaggerating wildly about the delay. There are some indications that TECS might land this Chinese lunar year or shortly thereafter.STECS, not TECS. It appears that VKB’s new throttle system has a slightly different name than before. Short for Single/Twin Engine Control System (STECS), VKB have released a teaser trailer for the upcoming full reveal of their new HOTAS system. The trailer shows off four different configurations of the STECS systems along with some flashy ...They can be "physically attached " to other components of the GNX line. They will work with other VKB (or non-VKB) devices alright but not being "attached" to them. By "attached" I understand like "device A is screwed to the side of device B", or "device A is connected to device B by the means of a dedicated bracket", like they are in the GNX ...The phrase is "It takes Two to Tango" meaning a partnership. The title links this to "You and VKB" meaning, the partners in the dance are us (the customers) and vkb, who has provided flight gear over the years and across the history of air combat - ww2, cold war, and into the future. Description STECS Throttle System - Standard Based on a solid steel platform, the STECS Standard can be used as a desktop stand-alone device, or mounted to a sim rig or chair mount. Includes MFH (MultiFunctional Holder) compatible fixture to connect frontal extension modules. Does not include GNX MFH (separate purchase).Dec 31, 2017 · Both the TECS official release and the unofficial release of the vintage WWII model are interesting to me. I think I'd probably lean towards the TECS because of that dual throttle system which sounds handy when flying jets and props with twin engines. It seems I read that many consider VKB as better than even the Warthog. They do cost more. Their HOTAS throttle VKB TECS is under ...re: vkb tecs: modularity full ahead First of all, I would like to express my condolences to everyone involved when I heard that there was a painful event. And I would like to thank all those involved who have listened seriously to our selfish opinions and worked hard to make them happen, despite the difficult times.

Based on a solid steel platform, the STECS Standard can be used as a desktop stand-alone device, or mounted to a sim rig or chair mount. Includes MFH (MultiFunctional Holder) …

 · VKB TECS (Twin Engine Controls System) VKB TECS (Twin Engine Controls System) By Sokol1 December 31, 2017 in Hardware, Software and Controllers. Share More sharing options... Followers 0. Recommended Posts. Sokol1. Posted December 31, 2017. Sokol1. Founder 7.1k Location: ...Re: Throttling Up - wait for TECS or? Сообщение Fri13 » Вс ноя 03, 2019 20:35. What comes to the VKB throttle, I would recommend to waiting period to simply get something else like a CH throttle or TM.16000 throttle. Meaning you get a more or less F/A-18C kind throttle and both has enough buttons for most things. In the past year, several makers have remarked about how prices on basic parts have skyrocketed. I remember when the Gladiator line of modules were teased last September, the SEM was quoted at $50-$60, and ended up launching at $70…. So these could change given the current state of the global economy. 3. A few weeks ago in the VKB channel of the HOTAS discord, someone shared screenshots from the VKB forum in which a VKB developer stated that: "during the testing we received interesting proposals, made changes to the design, ordered new molds, and we are shifting the deadlines". Yes, the idea in TECS is allow exchange throttle grips like is done in VKB bases that accept multiple VKB joystick grip (KG-12-B, SCG, MCG, F-14). But at release (when?) only this "Su57'ish" grips will be available.Lol. I was searching high and low for a HOTAS setup during the pandemic. Had my eye on VKB and kept waiting for the throttle so I could save on shipping to Canada. Got "lucky" when the warthog system came in stock at a local store. I generally happy with the warthog after the mini stick mod. I may look at VKB again if the throttle ever gets ...Here goes TECS. Grips (module). DSC07238.jpg. Ergonomics and dimensions closely follow those of Su-35 and Su-57 real life planes, only slightly retouched by our designers to optimize game simulator experience. Not only grips are a separate module, but they also are built with modularity in mind.

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New VKB modular throttle from VKB coming up later in August By JV44Svejk, August 20. 25 replies; 1.3k views; spreckair Yesterday at 01:54 AM; Which one ... VKB TECS Release - Finally 😁 1 2. By LukeFF, July 18. 51 replies; 1.9k views; LukeFF August 5; Configuration File ...Their HOTAS throttle VKB TECS is under development and about to be released for sale before Chinese New Year, so they say. Ryzen5 5800X3D, RTX4070, 600 Watt, TWO Dell S3222DGM 32" screens joined with Nvidia surround 5185 x 1440p, 16 GB RAM, 4 TB PCle 3 NVMe, Warthog HOTAS, CH quad, 3 Logitech panels, 2 StreamDecks, Desktop Aviator Trim Panel.By now I expect the price point and perhaps even the features to have significantly changed, given the amount of time has passed since, with Covid and Ukraine War effects yet to be priced in. I’d be surprised if the base model, if/when eventually released, is going to be closer to €/$ 250,- than €/$ 300,-. TECS is known by many titles with many different cultures although the name TECS is generally attributed to the mountainous Western region of North America. The common name Sasquatch comes from the Salish Sasquits, while the Algonquin of the north-central region of the continent refer to a Witiko or Wendigo.Decisions would be easier to make without time and money limitations. Of course, VKB helps make the decision by not releasing this throttle any time soon. No VKB throttle, no possibility of building a dedicated Soviet pit or a 2nd generic interchangeable pit to complement my current F-4 styled arrangement.v2.19. August 17, 2023. STECS Throttle System - Max Based on a solid steel platform, the STECS Max can be used as a desktop stand-alone device, or mounted to a sim rig or chair mount. Includes MFH (MultiFunctional Holder) compatible fixture and one MFH to connect frontal extension modules. Includes 1 STECS base 1 MTG-L grip 1 MTG-R grip Red r.The x52 is less for more parts but is just less overall. The VKB is more expensive but the quality is just so much better. Also the VKB, looking at just this subreddit and hoggit, has much better resale value if you need to look at it that way. Anyway just my experience and hope this helps. Luv - Grim.If the TECS base model has the features/functional characteristics that VKB claim it will have and it's up to the normal VKB level of quality, it will be a very good throttle indeed. If it's around the price-point VKB have suggested then it will be very, very competitive. ….

Gunfighter Mk IV X-axis movement issue. Hey all, just received my Gunfighter Mk IV with the MCG Ultimate grip with it. I have left the Cams as they are (Avia-S) but I have swapped the single #20 springs it came with to double #30 springs on each axis and to me it feels good. However, after dialling the damper to my liking, I noticed that all ...VKB TECS Throttle Control System front image. Yeah, I don't fly warbirds (only modern jets) but Jesus that thing is gorgeous. VKB is killing it right now with the throttles. I do mainly space sims and warbirds.Now if I could only stick with ONE SET, that would be great. Last time I played Star Citizen, I was using the VKB Kosmosimas (L&R) with the VPC CM2 throttle and an iPad. Its chaos. For the sake of having one brand; once VKB releases the TECS with a sliding throttle, the VPC stuff gets thrown into the bin-o-controls, on ebay, or sold locally. Here goes TECS. Grips (module). Ergonomics and dimensions closely follow those of Su-35 and Su-57 real life planes, only slightly retouched by our designers to optimize game simulator experience. Not only grips are …VKB-SIM. Official Forum. ... На главную Список форумов In English Official announcements; VKB TECS: MODULARITY FULL AHEAD. Модератор: AdminGroup. 600 сообщений Страница 14 из 40. Перейти на страницу:As for throttle the Gladiator doesn’t come with one, nor does VKB even make a fighter style throttle (or at least doesn’t until the VKB TECS comes out sometime before 2100). But there is a close, and rather cheap standalone knockoff of the Saitek throttle around called Titanwolf. Doesn’t have the display though.Jan 30, 2021 · 435 24K views 2 years ago Welcome to the hardware preview for the VKB TECS throttle. This is a highly anticipated piece of hardware, that we here at Falcons Ledge are looking forward to!... Discussing my VKB STECS. I threw together a video to discuss my VKB STECS Max. I have only ever used a Thrustmaster Warthog throttle which I have had for a very long time. I really like the STECS and appreciate the concept of modular upgrades. It has its shortcomings as well but was worth it for me. So thanks. But honestly, TECS is the same place it was a year ago; probably coming at some point, VKB confirming they haven't dropped it, but outside of VKB nobody has any idea on timeline. My advice is what it has been for a year at this point: buy a virpil, sell it when the TECS comes out if it's as good as the marketing material suggests. 50. Vkb tecs, If you're having trouble accessing Instagram right now, it's because the social network is currently experiencing a partial outage. If you were having trouble accessing Instagram earlier, it was because the social network was experiencing a..., Their HOTAS throttle VKB TECS is under development and about to be released for sale before Chinese New Year, so they say. Ryzen5 5800X3D, RTX4070, 600 Watt, TWO Dell S3222DGM 32" screens joined with Nvidia surround 5185 x 1440p, 16 GB RAM, 4 TB PCle 3 NVMe, Warthog HOTAS, CH quad, 3 Logitech panels, 2 StreamDecks, Desktop Aviator Trim Panel., Re: VKB TECS: MODULARITY FULL AHEAD. I believe the omni throttle has tunable clutches, so can be configured with the clutch friction exceeding the (also configurable) spring strength so that each axis can be left in position once moved. Also while you do lose an axis for the TECS, it will supposedly have a good thumbstick under the left thumb ..., STECS, not TECS. It appears that VKB's new throttle system has a slightly different name than before. Short for Single/Twin Engine Control System (STECS), VKB have released a teaser trailer for the upcoming full reveal of their new HOTAS system. The trailer shows off four different configurations of the STECS systems along with some flashy ..., v2.19. August 17, 2023. STECS Throttle System - Standard Based on a solid steel platform, the STECS Standard can be used as a desktop stand-alone device, or mounted to a sim rig or chair mount. Includes MFH (MultiFunctional Holder) compatible fixture to connect frontal extension modules., VKB was already an existing, functioning company producing/selling/shipping multiple products when they "announced" this TECS throttle seven years ago. Ten years ago CR started with a handful of potential employees and a video game concept on Kickstarter., https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-t-rudders-mk-ivhttp://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Documentations/T_Link_En.pdfInterested in Star Citizen, Click here... https://e..., Features. 3 Analog axes (w/ clutch dampers and adjustable length/height of axis levers) 5 Interchangeable axis lever heads (different colors/shape) Up to 4 GNX THQ modules can be connected, providing 12 analog axes. Newly developed VKB Njoy 32NG firmware allows for 20 analog axes to be recognized in Windows as 3 joysticks (2 w/ 8 axes, plus 1 w ..., Re: Unveiling the VKB TECS Throttle Control System (In Development) Fri13 писал(а): Seriously, my only fear is that once it gets revealed and put on the store, 5 mins and it is all gone. Then 3-5 months to wait next batch and, 2-4 mins and all gone., They can be "physically attached " to other components of the GNX line. They will work with other VKB (or non-VKB) devices alright but not being "attached" to them. By "attached" I understand like "device A is screwed to the side of device B", or "device A is connected to device B by the means of a dedicated bracket", like they are in the GNX ..., Maybe VKB makes something great, but it will make sacrifices just like every other. The only option for a realistic flight sim throttle is pro-sumer stuff like dropping $1500 on a thottletek. Once you get into level D level get expensive real …, re: vkb tecs: modularity full ahead AeroGator писал(а): We're working on it - there is pretty much nothing new in this reply, unfortunately. We can't stop people from buying other makers' throttle, obviously, as people have their plans, and care not about others' reasons, which is understandable and totally justified.,  · VKB TECS (Twin Engine Controls System) VKB TECS (Twin Engine Controls System) By Sokol1 December 31, 2017 in Hardware, Software and Controllers. Share More sharing options... Followers 0. Recommended Posts. Sokol1. Posted December 31, 2017. Sokol1. Founder 7.1k Location: ..., I'd say my previous comment from the start of the year is close to accurate - we MIGHT see the TECS in the start of 2022, maybe around Chinese New Year, but VKB are focusing on the launch of their latest (awesome) piece of kit. The TECS will launch when it's ready. Best news is, though, we're getting closer., I heard that the Warthog is not too bad, and you MAY be able to find it for under $300. Since the Virpil MT50 cm3 was just released, you may be able to find a cm2 around $300, but I wouldn't be surprised if people actually ask upwards of $400 for those now. That is if you need a throttle now. If you can wait for the TECS, it may very well be ..., There are a whole bunch of us TECS-give-upers on the Virpil CM3. It's a fantastic throttle, the only thing I'm jealous of from the TECS are the electronic detents. I have a feeling when the TECS does come out there will be a healthy market of used CM3s out there, although Virpil could leapfrog them again with an updated detent system on the CM4., About the best budget throttle available, in line with the CH Pro Throttle. The CH one is better quality and will last a lot longer but the TWCS is a lot newer with more features. Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog. Decent throttle, overpriced stick. I am looking for a throttle with good ergonomics and feel and some simple buttons. Virpil or Wingwing. 3., Chinese workers get a total of 11 public holidays a year, which is actually the same as here in NZ. 2. VKB-Sim VKB Official • 2 yr. ago. Chinese workers have no annual leave, just for the record. It is kinda agreed that having 3 longish public holidays would suffice (CNY, May Day week, and National Day week)., VKB are also touting a new electronic based detent system which enables for a fuller range of travel and configurable detent with different styles – tactile click, hard limit, one-way and two-way. Arc Standard – A basic throttle base with buttons and mechanical detents. Approximate price will be $200 USD. Arc Premium – Electronic detents ..., Jul 19, 2023 · STECS, not TECS. It appears that VKB’s new throttle system has a slightly different name than before. Short for Single/Twin Engine Control System (STECS), VKB have released a teaser trailer for the upcoming full reveal of their new HOTAS system. The trailer shows off four different configurations of the STECS systems along with some flashy ... , re: vkb tecs: modularity full ahead On a more serious note, and talking specifics here, even knowing that the HQ of VKB is in China now, I do hope that the development and production of VKB isn't impacted by the sanctions that have been imposed by the West against Russia, taking into account that access to software and electronics hardware were both part of …, FYI, the VKB GF III with the 200mm extension and the MonsterTech desk drop mount is completely awesome. There is no way to describe the difference between a standard joystick and an extended length joystick other than it is the best experience I have ever had in sim with a joystick. Expensive, yes, but glad I pulled the trigger and did it., re: vkb tecs: modularity full ahead First of all, I would like to express my condolences to everyone involved when I heard that there was a painful event. And I would like to thank all those involved who have listened seriously to our selfish opinions and worked hard to make them happen, despite the difficult times., Assuming the TECS does eventually arrive (and there's no reason to assume it won't) and it lives up to VKB's promises as regards functionality and price then TECS should be a superior product to the CM3 but if you need a throttle and can't/don't want to wait (and not wanting to wait is perfectly sensible) then the CM3 is a great choice of throttle., re: vkb tecs: modularity full ahead AeroGator писал(а): We're working on it - there is pretty much nothing new in this reply, unfortunately. We can't stop people from buying other makers' throttle, obviously, as people have their plans, and care not about others' reasons, which is understandable and totally justified., I plan to use the X56 throttle till the VKB throttle comes out, then sell the entire X56. The throttle is the best part of the kit, and while there are reports of "ghosting" with some buttons, swapping USB ports or using a powered USB hub seems to solve it. That's not to say that they all have the problem, but some do., “The TECS's main control sliders' movement is physically made linear that surely adds to the realistic feeling and allows for the user's greater immersion. Frictions that load this movement can be adjusted individually. VKB engineers managed to design a unique stop mechanism that never before had been implemented in the gaming world. , In shops from October 20, 2021.vkb-sim.provkbcontrollers.comflightsimcontrols.comvkb-sim.com.au, I wonder when VKB is actually going to release the TECS. They've been working on it for several years already, probably for the better. Obviously I could go for the Thrustmaster again (with some mods this time) but I might be better off waiting for the release of the TECS. The Gladiator NXT has a throttle built in fortunately., Gunfighter Mk IV X-axis movement issue. Hey all, just received my Gunfighter Mk IV with the MCG Ultimate grip with it. I have left the Cams as they are (Avia-S) but I have swapped the single #20 springs it came with to double #30 springs on each axis and to me it feels good. However, after dialling the damper to my liking, I noticed that all ..., Jul 18, 2023 · It appears that VKB’s new throttle system has a slightly different name than before. Short for Single/Twin Engine Control System (STECS), VKB have released a teaser trailer for the upcoming full reveal of their new HOTAS system. The trailer shows off four different configurations of the STECS systems along with some flashy graphics. , I'd say my previous comment from the start of the year is close to accurate - we MIGHT see the TECS in the start of 2022, maybe around Chinese New Year, but VKB are focusing on the launch of their latest (awesome) piece of kit. The TECS will launch when it's ready. Best news is, though, we're getting closer., Fwiw - I got tired of waiting on the so called TECS throttle from VKB and purchased the Virpil CM3 Throttle over a year ago. Very glad I did, I absolutely love this throttle. Don't get me wrong I do love and support VKB and get great enjoyment out of their Gunfighter Mk III with Ultimate Grip but for my needs Virpil had something already that ...